Hole in My Heart Podcast

Episode 183: What Do You Want? With Curt Thompson

Desires: We all have ‘em.
And sometimes they really get in our way.
What are we supposed to do about this? Does Jesus care about our desires? Does He value them?
As our good friend Curt Thompson points out, Jesus first question in the gospel of John is, “What do you want?”
Clearly, our desires matter to God.
How and why? Listen with us to find out.
// Highlights: “Jesus’ assumption is that what I want is a really, really big deal.” -Curt Thompson “[When I am wounded] I don’t desire, I devour.” -Curt Thompson
“…[S]till Jesus says, ‘What is it that you want?’ And I’m like, ‘What else is there to want? I’ve run out of all the options that I’ve made, that I’ve created.’ And this is when He comes with Himself and undoes us. Because—what I really want? I wanna be loved, I wanna be seen, I wanna be known, I wanna be wanted. And even though it terrifies me, I even want to be wanted by [Jesus], including the parts of me that I hate the most. And Jesus is saying, ‘I’m all in. And the parts of you that you hate the most? I’m not afraid of that, and you can’t make me leave the room.’” -Curt Thompson
// Do the Next Thing:
Want more of Curt? We have loads! (We’re big fans of him around here.)
For the basics, check out his website, including his NEW BOOK, The Soul of Desire!
To hear more from Curt on our podcast, check out these other episodes!
Episode 64: Exploring Our Souls of Shame, pt. 1
Episode 65: Exploring Our Souls of Shame, pt. 2
Episode 138: Shredding Shame in a Pandemic
Are you looking for a community with whom to explore more of the issues discussed on the podcast? Join the Heart of the Matter on Facebook!
Looking for a great translation of the Bible? The CSB translation is a sponsor of the HIMH podcast! Learn more about our new favorite Bible at csbible.com.

Episode 182: How to Love Scripture with Tara Leigh Cobble

How many people do you know who currently feel slightly-to-very discouraged about their faith?
Do you have a sense that the Bible could be a great help, but you don’t want to come across as legalistic or dismissive of their struggles?
How do you walk alongside your friends? (Or, how do you walk alongside yourself if you’re struggling with cracking the Bible?)
Author, podcaster, and Bible teacher Tara Leigh Cobble is here to help. Together, we explore:
How does the Bible relate to our identity?
What reading program can I start today without being overwhelmed by starting today?
How important is it to have someone who can walk with you?
How did Tara Leigh go from, “I can’t do this any more,” to caring about the Scriptures and Jesus more than ever before?
Join us?
// Highlights:
“I was reading Scripture with the lens to understand how do I get what I want from God, first of all?…And I was also looking [for] how can I please Him? Because, frankly, if I please Him, if I do what He wants, then He’s gonna do what I want….And my pastor friend said, ‘You’re reading it backwards. You’re reading it as thought it’s a mirror, and it’s not. It’s a lens to behold the living God.’” -Tara Leigh Cobble
// Do the Next Thing:
Are you looking for Bible study resources? Head over to BibleRecap.com.
Want more of Tara Leigh? Check out her website here!
Also—we are in love with this study from Tara Leigh! Go get it!
In this episode, we mention the coaching options with Laurie, but her schedule is currently full. If you are interested in learning more, email info@lauriekrieg.com.
The CSB translation is a sponsor of the HIMH podcast. Learn more about our new favorite Bible at csbible.com!

Episode 181: How Not to Give Up with Christine Caine

“I’ve thought, ‘I don't know if I can do this, I don't know if I'm good enough or talented enough or whatever,’ but never had I thought [before that moment], ‘I don't know if I want to,’ because I really knew the price of going forward.”
—Christine Caine
The first time we had this conversation with anti-human trafficking activist and internationally sought-after speaker and author Christine Caine, it was life-giving to all of us.
The second time we listened, it felt doubly hope-infusing because of where we are at in our journeys now…
Anyone else feeling the global slump of discouragement and despair? Has anyone else wondered, “Why am I doing this?” Or “How did I get here?”
Christine came and did not cheerlead us out of it, rather she empathized and encouraged from her own two-year journey with a dark night of the soul…
We’d love to have you join this powerful conversation.
// Highlight:
“I've thought, ‘I don't know if I can do this, I don't know if I'm good enough or talented enough or whatever,’ but never have I thought, ‘I don't know if I want to,’ because I really knew the price of going forward … But then I turn to [my husband] and I said, ‘But Jesus would know. Jesus know that I didn't press on … Jesus would know that I coasted my way into eternity—if I didn't press on and keep running my race.”—Christine Caine
// Do the Next Thing:
Find Christine’s book and all the things here
Learn more about the Propel-Wheaton Cohort here
The CSB translation is a sponsor of the HIMH podcast. Learn more about our new favorite Bible here
Join our Facebook group to connect with other listeners!

Episode 180: Helping Kids Navigate a Porn-Saturated World with Josh Glaser & Daniel Weiss

Real talk:
When we think about raising our little kids in a porn-saturated world, we want to raze the whole broken system to the ground. That we even have to have this conversation plain ol’ stinks. (Darn you, Fall of Man!) 
Then, we start to brainstorm:
How long can I keep porn away from our kids? (Forever?)
What if they have already discovered it? (Am I the worst parent?)
How early are we supposed to talk about the “goodness of God’s design” for sex (the mechanics of it), and how early is too early?
As first-generation parents, youth leaders, and aunts and uncles of kids with cell phones (ie. porn in our kids’ pockets), we can feel overwhelmed by how to engage the porn conversation. But … annoyingly … we have to.  Can someone please help us?
Ministry leaders and researchers Josh Glaser and Daniel Weiss are here with the assist, and the conversation we had was helpful and hopeful.
Join us?
// Highlights:
“In one study, 75 percent of parents felt their kids hadn’t seen pornography, but 50 percent of those kids in that group admitted they had looked at it. So, that means half of those parents were unaware that their kids were looking at pornography.” —Daniel Weiss
“It’s a natural human response…that when we’re found out in our sin, we like to run and we like to hide. It’s a protective mechanism. And so, instead of inviting our kids to lie to us or to evade the truth, we just let them know what we know.” -Josh Glaser
“It’s not whether or not my kid would look at pornography—that’s the wrong question. The right question is: ’Is pornography the content or kind or material that will respect my family’s boundaries or my family’s values?’ It’s not. Pornography is seeking to be found. You can be frustrated … angry … but, that’s why it’s so important to be intentional and proactive [to not only] talk about the dangers out there, but more importantly, [to talk about] the beauty of what this was all made for—God’s design. Give them the positive, the beautiful first so that everything else seems to be the counterfeit, not the other way around.” —Daniel Weiss 
// Do the Next Thing:
For more on this topic, check out Jay Stringer’s book Unwanted.
You can also listen to this interview we did with Dan Allender, who addresses the connection between shame and sexuality.
Join our Facebook group to connect with other listeners! 

Episode 179: Three Types of Shame and Why They Matter with Matt Krieg

So...shame.
It's talked about quite frequently and often with rightful animosity, but have you ever considered there might be some good types of shame?
Buckle your seatbelt as we engage the three types of shame and why they are so important--not just when engaging the LGBT+ conversation, but anyone's life.
Matt, Laurie, and Steve also dive into how the rest of SEASON FIVE will look, and why they are choosing to follow Jesus--even now in often-brutal 2021.
Toxic Shame:
Whole body self-hate "Who I am is worthless."
From the enemy (Satan)
Happens before, during, or after we sin (or even if we didn't)
Guilt:
"What I did was not worth it."
From the Holy Spirit
Happens only after we sin
Godly Shame: 
Helps us to feel the weight of our sin so we don't repeat it
From the Holy Spirit
Happens after we sin (or if we didn't)
See: 1 Cor. 6:5 (“I say this to shame you”), 2 Cor. 7:10 (“godly sorrow that leads to repentance”)
// Highlight:
“The antidote to shame is being seen in our mess and loved in our mess….[Confession] can be this joyful thing, it doesn’t have to be this—it shouldn’t be—this ‘You’re worthless’ thing!….We don’t have to—just because we’ve been tempted toward something or even if we’ve sinned—we don’t have to hate ourselves, guys! We can confess and be free!” -Laurie Krieg
// Do the Next Thing:
Our book, An Impossible Marriage, talks often about these three types of shame and how they manifest. Check it out here!
And for more on shame, check out this resource by the expert, Curt Thompson: The Soul of Desire.
For those of you who are married and maybe feeling stuck, here’s an extra resource as well! “14 Days to Unstick Your Marriage.”
Want to be more involved with the podcast? Check out our Facebook group!

Episode 118 Take Two: Tough Conversations with Friends with Stephanie Thole

Engaging conversations on race or sexuality is a hard, holy task.
As Christians, we don’t always do it well, even if our hearts are in the right place.
Are these conversations the same?
How are they different?
Can we advocate justice and unity without endorsing what is not God’s best?
And how do we do this with our friends?
Stephanie Thole entered into this conversation with extraordinary grace and kindness, and we are thrilled to listen in again.
//: Highlights
“We were one of the few black families. I remember always being so attracted to all of these white boys. In my mind, I was like, ‘I gotta get rid of this…’ I understood at a very early age that that was not allowed.” —Stephanie Thole
“I was very much aware at how different I was. That I was ‘other.’” —Stephanie Thole
“A lot of us have made mistakes, have had hard conversations, have offended the wrong person, and it’s been a painful, awkward experience. Don’t let that stop you. Keep walking.” —Stephanie Thole
//: Do the Next Thing
For more on this conversation, check out our friends Daniel Hill and Rebecca McLaughlin! They lend their voices well to these issues.
The Secular Creed by Rebecca McLaughlin.
White Lies by Daniel Hill. 
You can also listen to our interview with Rebecca McLaughlin here! 
Have you seen our new favorite Bible yet? Check it out here! 
Follow Laurie on Instagram for more ministry updates! 

Episode 114 Take Two: Seeing Friends As Siblings with Rachel Gilson

Sometimes, we need the cold water bucket of siblinghood thrown over our heads and our questions.
What happens when we feel attraction toward our friends?
What if we become enmeshed with other people?
How do we guard against turning inward rather than outward, and encourage one another to continue on mission with Jesus?
Rachel Gilson shares her story and the beauty of being family in Christ in really helpful ways. We’re thrilled to revisit this conversation with her.
Listen in with us.
 
//:Highlights
“We kind of intuitively sense that a sibling relationship is a special kind of relationship: It has both really deep intimacy but is absolutely not erotic.” –Rachel Gilson
“A lot of time what temptation does is it wants to pull away our focus from, ‘God has given me gifts and opportunity to—with His Body—build His kingdom.’ Temptation ends up being this big gospel waste.” –Rachel Gilson
“Occasionally, you get this best friend situation where you turn inward like an ingrown toenail … you end up pairing up in a way that shuts out the broader body. There is something about sibling-hood that reminds us we are a part of a family.” –Rachel Gilson
//: Do the Next Thing
For more from Rachel Gilson, check out her book, Born Again This Way. 
Also, check out her article “I Never Became Straight” on Christianity Today, which one of the most read of its time.
You can also listen to our first episode with Rachel Gilson here. 
Also! Check out Kelly Needham on codependency here. 
Have you seen our new favorite Bible yet? Check it out here! 
Join our Facebook group for more updates! 

Episode 93 Take Two: Broken + Beloved Pastors with Brad Klaver

After witnessing three excommunications of leaders in the church, Brad Klaver vowed that he would never share his same-sex attractions with anyone.
The Holy Spirit had other plans.
After over a decade of pastoring and marriage, God brought Brad face to face with himself—and it changed his life forever.
Will you join us as we listen again to this beautiful story of gospel transformation?
I Highlight I
“I remember exactly where I was watching [the excommunications] unfold. In me there was this internal wrestle of fear of: ‘I don’t know where this came from. I don’t know why I have this. I don’t know where this all began or what was done to me to make me like this, but all I know based on what I am seeing now is … this is what happens if people find out. You admit it, and you are shown the door.’ … I said to myself… ‘I will never tell anyone. Ever.’ That commitment was kept for 25 years.” –Brad Klaver
“If there’s one piece of encouragement that I could give listeners—invite the person you don’t understand to your table. There’s power in the fellowship around the table….There’s a reason that there’s power in communion, in the breaking of bread and of prayer. And the fact of the matter is that, for Michelle and I, the thing that we longed for most when we stepped down….We were never invited over for dinner…” -Brad Klaver
I Do the Next Thing I
Want more stories of Christians surrendering their sexuality? Check these out:
Greg Coles’ beautiful autobiography Single, Gay, Christian. https://www.amazon.com/Single-Gay-Christian-Personal-Identity/dp/0830845127
Rachel Gilson’s incredible story Born Again This Way. https://www.amazon.com/Born-Again-This-Rachel-Gilson/dp/178498390X
And for more resources on sexuality, visit the CenterForFaith.com.
Have you seen our new favorite Bible yet? Check it out here! https://csbholylandillustratedbible.com
Follow Laurie on Instagram for more ministry updates! https://www.instagram.com/laurie_krieg/?hl=en

Episode 92 Take Two: Broken + Beloved Pastors with Johnny and Amanda McKenna

Guys! We’re back with this highly requested conversation with our REAL LIFE FRIENDS Johnny and Amanda.
What happens when a pastor suffers addiction in silence?
What happens when he has an affair?
What happens when health problems keep a couple from having sex?
Is there hope for marriages that go through these things?
Johnny and Amanda are here to say YES! God is a God of redemption and their story is beautiful proof. It’s worth the listen.
I Highlights I
“I constantly felt like I didn’t measure up. Pornography was an escape from that feeling for me. ‘Finally, I don’t have to feel that just for that moment.’ But after that moment is over . . . now I’m right where I started, and in an even worse spot.”
–Johnny McKenna
“We could not have sex for two years of our marriage. I was so ashamed. I didn’t know what was wrong with me, what was wrong with my body. I didn’t understand it. It’s so hard and embarrassing to talk about with people . . . I felt so helpless.”
–Amanda McKenna
“All this is going on and I’m saying to myself … ‘You’re such a scumbag … It’s time to take my life … I’ll be gone, but my legacy will be in tact. I won’t be this pastor that is another Hall of Shame member. I won’t have to tell my boys that I failed them–that I cheated on their mom. I won’t have to tell my youth group kids and leaders. I can at least provide for them financially. They’ll be in a better place because I have life insurance.’ I thought that was the best case scenario. Those were the lies Satan was whispering in my ear.”
–Johnny Mckenna
”One of the things [my friend] said was, ‘Amanda, God is saving your husband right now.’ It shocked me. ‘What do you mean He’s saving us? It feels like He’s killing us.’ But then that meaning sunk in: Johnny was living bound and held captive by his sin. But now, God was in the process of saving him. …That’s really beautiful if you think about it: God steps into the mess and he fights for you.”
–Amanda McKenna
I Do the Next Thing I
Have you seen our new favorite Bible yet? Check it out here! https://csbholylandillustratedbible.com
Join our Facebook group for more updates! https://www.facebook.com/groups/himhpodcast

Episode 91 Take Two: Broken + Beloved Pastors with Ben and Lauren Schulke

We are thrilled to be revisiting the Broken and Beloved Pastors series! In the next three episodes, we’ll hear the stories of three pastors who are, like all of us, “more loved than we can imagine and more sinful than we believe.”
What happens when a pastor wrestles with gender dysphoria?
What happens when the same pastor is called to bring that wrestling into the light, in his marriage and with his community?
What happens to his ministry? To his marriage? To his identity?
Ben and Lauren Schulke answer these questions and more as they recount their story with us. We are honored to share it with you.
I Highlights I
“I very much tried to control the image of how people saw me. But . . . when people know me they can choose to love me and not some facsimile.” –Ben Schulke
“I got to this place where I said, ‘I would rather be obedient to God than preserve something temporary–like my job.'”–Ben Schulke
“Ben’s identity is not gender dysphoria. His identity is not whatever other sin or brokenness he is dealing with. That’s not who he is. He is a son of God, and he is loved by Him.” –Lauren Schulke
I Do the Next Thing I
For more on this conversation, check out Mark Yarhouse’s book Emerging Gender Identities! It’s exciting stuff. :D https://www.amazon.com/Emerging-Gender-Identities-Understanding-Experiences/dp/1587434342
You can also check out Preston Sprinkle’s book on trans* issues, Embodied. https://www.amazon.com/Embodied-Transgender-Identities-Church-Bible/dp/0830781226
Have you seen our new favorite Bible yet? Check it out here! https://csbholylandillustratedbible.com
Follow Laurie on Instagram for more ministry updates! https://www.instagram.com/laurie_krieg/?hl=en