Hole in My Heart Podcast

Episode 53: Saying ”Yes” with Tom and Dana Mollhagen

Do you ever wonder how people can go from living comfortably to saying "yes" to serving people courageously?
We do.
So we asked some of our friends how they did it.
Tom Mollhagen transformed from being born in a brothel in India, to living the American dream, to going back and serving those he left behind. His wife, Dana, went from accepting Jesus on a swing set at five years old, to a successful nursing career, to working side-by-side with Thomas in India.
Our friends are not special Christians; they are normal Christians who are obedient.
Hear how they went from the American dream to saying "yes" no matter what (and of course play a ridiculous game alongside them) on this week's episode.
 
//: Highlights:
"I was born in a brothel. I was the untouchable, and the lowest caste. We had no hope. The only way they can live out of that caste system is by bringing the gospel and telling them they don't have to live that life. God paid for it... We don't have to earn it anymore." --Tom Mollhagen
"The gospel is so needed-both for the predator and the victim. I am kind of repulsed  by that because we only want to think about the victim. But both need huge redemption. As I've see this, [the perpetrators] need to be redeemed from viewing anyone as an object. . . . For the children who have been through things (so many people who have been trafficked): The Lord has to heal that hurt. There is so much in this world that needs to be made right. . . God starts to do that work in us now, but there is a waiting in that hope that is to come." --Dana Mollhagen
 
//: Do the Next Thing:
Check out their organization, Faith in Deeds
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Episode 52: Good Faith Takes Good Courage with Gabe Lyons

91% of US adults believe the best way to find yourself is by looking within yourself, and 2 out of 5 Americans believe that, when it comes to what happens in the country today, "people of faith" and "religion" are a part of the problems in our country.
How can we speak into this environment as believers?
Author, speaker, and leader of leaders, Gabe Lyons, helps break down how Christians can be both courageous and faithful in a world that thinks we are extreme and irrelevant.
We launch the courage conversation by talking about a time when someone quite innocently (but publicly) accused me of something, and Gabe represented Jesus well by advocating strongly for me. 
We also discuss the Gabe's Enneagram number, one of his most embarrassing moments, and we all were privileged to watch God weave the conversation together with the themes of courage and confession.
This one is not one to miss.
 
//: Highlights:
"People are afraid to speak up... There is actually this belief in the 'boogey man'--this monster out there that's bigger in your mind than it really is. You start to realize that when you start to tell the truth, people are hungry for the truth, they are looking for the truth, nobody is saying the truth, and finally when somebody does in a kind, loving way (and with the right posture), people start to respond." --Gabe Lyons
"The reality is most people are not looking for a debate. They are looking for someone who is loving and kind, but also willing to be confident in what they believe." --Gabe Lyons
"Confession is the initial act that starts to open up a door of freedom--of shame being removed, and us living out in a courageous way what God wants to do. If we don't do that, we don't usually have courage. We don't feel comfortable telling anybody else what we believe is true, because we do feel judgmental. Because we know that in our own life we have things we haven't confessed. It is critical to confess so we can then (with confidence) approach all the issues and topics and conversations that we need to be bold about in our society." --Gabe Lyons
 
//: Do the Next Thing:
Follow Gabe on Instagram and Twitter
Read Gabe Lyons and David Kinnaman's books!
For More (including some statistics from his book)

Episode 51: Radically Normal with Josh Kelley

Do you ever feel like you are a spiritual extremist? Some days you're running so hard and fast toward Jesus, and then you get tired. Or you mess up. Or someone says something to throw you off and you stop. And putz around a bit. And get discouraged. But then you get convicted and you start sprinting until you...don't.
This back-forth, sprint-stop can be exhausting.
Josh Kelley, author of 'Radically Normal', talks through some of this "obsessive Christianity" and "complacent Christianity."
What is the difference?
How can we halt the extremism cycle?
It was a conversation that made us all think. And laugh. (We play a game called "Christian or Secular" and the team has to decide if the lyrics belong to a Christian or not Christian song. Enya seems to walk the line of both.)
 
//: Highlight:
"I face more temptation going to a Bible study than going to the bar. And this is why: I was a smart kid, and my identity was being this smartest one in the room--knowing more about the Bible. Every time I walk into a Bible study or walk into a church, my temptation to prove myself or to prove my spiritual astuteness is overwhelming." --Josh Kelley
“Whether it’s a bartender or a barista or a pastor or whatever God has called you to, you can be 100 percent completely devoted to God in that place. The only thing that’s preventing you from being a whole-hearted follower of Jesus is not your education level, it’s not where you live, it’s not your job, its whether or not you choose to follow Him . . . with your whole heart.” –Josh Kelley
 
//: Do the Next Thing:
Read Josh's book! Radically Normal: You Don't Have to Live Crazy to Follow Jesus
Check out Josh's site!
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Episode 50: Gay Girl, Good God, and Good Marriage with Jackie Hill Perry

Author, poet, and artist, Jackie Hill Perry, is in the house! As we do with every guest, we get at the intersection between the gospel and Jackie's real, right-now life.
In addition to Jackie's story of surrender, we discuss how she and her husband stay connected through the storms of life, how to interact with people who want to make her into a deity or the devil, and if she were forced to only use Comic Sans or Papyrus fonts for the rest of her life--which would she choose?
Join us.
P.S. You can hear Jackie's four-month-old baby off and on throughout the podcast. It's the sweetest.
 
//: Highlights:
"Randomly, the strongest thought came to my head that said, 'My sin will be the death of me.' I was like, 'Oh, that was weird.' I started to think about my sin and it's consequences . . . I tried to be Christian before. I had said the sinner's prayer like 12 times before and it never worked. I knew I could not save myself. I knew, 'If you're calling me to be holy, that has to be something You do.' I told God, 'What you're calling me to do I know I can't do on my own, but I know enough about you to know that you'll help me.'" --Jackie Hill Perry
"I think my challenge was would I ever love him [my husband, Preston] truly? Will I ever be as attracted to him as I was to the women I was with? Will I ever feel like I can be myself? Those were a lot of my fears." --Jackie Hill Perry
"I really do believe that the gospel is foolish to those who are perishing. I really do believe that part of being a Christian is to be misunderstood. I cling a lot to the fact that when Jesus was teaching the truth they had the audacity to say he was possessed." --Jackie Hill Perry
 
//: Do the Next Thing:
Read Jackie's new book Gay Girl, Good God
Follow Jackie on Instagram
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Episode 49: The Awkward Middle with David Bennett

If you're in need of hearing a story of God's unmistakable reality, you may want to listen here.
David Bennett, author of 'A War of Loves' (Zondervan, Nov. 2018), shares his story and God's obvious breaking into his life. David was a once an atheist LGBT+ activist, and now pours out his life for all people because of God's love in him. The story includes a psychic telling him he was chosen by Jesus, asking his friends what love is, a prophetic moment from an uncle, and a life-transforming prayer in a bar.
But after that transformation, David still has to walk what we call the awkward middle--navigating relationships on either "side" of this conversation. How does that work?
Let's dig in.
We also play a game called "Elevensies," where we talk about which type of snack is absolutely necessary during morning snacks, afternoon tea, and movie snacks.
 
//: Highlights:
“There was an inner, ‘I don’t want to be gay and I hate myself. I don’t want to be same-sex attracted. I want to be straight like everyone else and belong.” I reacted to that in an extreme pendulum swing towards radical self-discloser, “I am gay, if you don’t accept it, then I don’t accept you. Get out of my way because I’m getting my rights and you’ll hear from me. I’m going to spend my life defending the gay community and destroying homophobia.” –David Bennett
“Jesus was saying to me, ‘No, I identify with that suffering. I died on the cross and had all the stones thrown at me. You don’t have to take those. I took them for you.'” –David Bennett
“I had been really, really politically active . . . working for gay marriage and very passionate about that and that political faction. I used to tear down all the Christian union posters on campus and put gay marriage march posters on top. That’s where I was. [But] in the middle of this there was still this aching void in my heart. Still this, ‘I want something more.'” –David Bennett
"[Madeline] said to me, 'David, have you experienced the love of God? You don't know the meaning of those desires until you experience the love of God.' She inflected to me that she really didn't like the narrow-mindedness of a lot of the Christian community and how horribly the LGBTQI community had been treated. That bowled me over. I had never had a Christian actually care--really actually care and embrace me as if they got what I'd been through. That was so powerful and disarming. Then she said . . . 'I really feel the presence of God right now. I have to pray for you. Do you mind if I pray for you? Is that okay? I don't usually pray for people but I just feel this compulsion. God's love is so intense for you." . . . It wasn't that [God] loved me as a fact, but she was experiencing how much more God loved me more than everything else. It was as if this love was unique for just me. It was the one thing that could get through the huge wall I had built over my heart." --David Bennett
 
//: Do the Next Thing:
Get his book! A War of Loves
Check out Larry Crabb's book on gender called Fully Alive
Follow David on Twitter
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Episode 48: How We Heal Part 3 with the Crew

Gratitude. Joy. Hope.
God has done some healing work on us, and we are sharing a few reasons why and how. We get practical.
Also we do a live, old-timey candy taste testing and it's disgusting.
Welcome.
 
//: Highlights:
"The reason I didn't leave is the same reason you didn't leave. It's because of God." --Matt Krieg
"It's been so hard to crack open my heart and let people in, but it has been so worth it." --Laurie Krieg
 
//: Do the Next Thing:
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Episode 47: Spiritual Friendships with Wesley Hill

Wesley Hill is known as a big brother to many people who have recently come out as celibate LGBT+ Christians. When this conversation was still whispered about in church basements, Wes stepped up to the podium and offered a beautiful picture of living with hope.
We talk about this "big brother" status, as well as dive into the new-to-us concept of emotional chastity: giving up the right or demand for extremely intimate non-sexual relationships.
We'd love to hear what you think of this concept of emotional chastity, and please let us know which goofy triathlon would you try. (You'll understand when you listen.)
Thanks for being a part of the HIMH Podcast fam! ​
 
//: Highlights:
​"Part of celibacy for me is not simply giving up a sexual relationship, but it's also a giving up that I have the right to an extremely intimate non-sexual relationship." --Wesley Hill
"When you choose a life of sexual absence . . . you're not just choosing not to go to bed with someone, but you're also choosing a kind of emotional chastity. You're choosing a life that is surrendering not just physical intimacy, but a certain amount of emotional intimacy--or at least the idea that someone owes you that or that God owes you that." --Wesley Hill
 
//: Do the Next Thing:
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Episode 46: When Your Kid Comes Out with Randy Hekman

When I was first making the connection between my brain and attractions toward women, I promised myself that I would never tell my parents. I was terrified. "Would they reject me? Does this mean I am not a Christian? Or I'm the worst-broken Christian?"
I'm so thankful that rejection wasn't a part of what I encountered, but it was still rocky. Lots of tears shed on this one with my dad, Randy Hekman.
Also lots of cheese-related laughs. We play a game called "To Cheese or Not to Cheese." Come, laugh, cry, and goof around with us.
 
//: ​Highlights: ​
"What is love? God gives you love for your kids. Tell me: which of your kids is perfect? Tell me: which of you, mom and dad, is perfect? We need grace. We need to extend grace." --Randy Hekman
"What does love actually mean? Love means you accept their heart and you care for them." --Randy Hekman
​"Our biggest weapon as a parents is what? . . . Our prayers. And God loves our kids more than we do . . . so keep praying. Keep loving. That's what I say to moms and dads." --Randy Hekman
 
//: Do the Next Thing:
Check out our friends' amazing Guiding Families resource
That Luis Palau prayer gathering he was talking about? Check it out here
That Stick Faith thing about five mentors? Find it here
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Episode 45: At the Intersection of Friendship and Loneliness with Bridget Eileen

Loneliness. We all experience it, but not many of us want to talk about it. Let’s start the conversation here (and connect it to the necessity of friendship) with blogger and our new friend, Bridget Eileen!
Also, we got new sound effects. Also we play “Explain a Film Plot Badly.” IT FUNNY.
Also listen to the end. Producer Steve likes to hide nuggets.
 
//: Highlights:
“I really struggled with the question, ‘How could impossibly be saved if I still have this struggle?’ It was so important to me to realize God doesn’t just save me in the past, but he is saving me in my present.” --Bridget Eileen
“The celibate life is really not livable without friendship.” --Bridget Eileen
"I’ve seen what a struggle [friendship] is for myself. I have been able to forge close friendships . . . but there haven't been many. There have been a few precious people here and there that I have found . . . But not everybody does find close friends because our culture doesn’t have as much of an appreciation of friendship as something that is permanent and something that you prioritize." --Bridget Eileen
 
//: Do the Next Thing:
Check out Bridget Eileen's blog, Meditations of a Traveling Nun for more beautiful thoughts on friendship/family/celibacy
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Episode 44: Jealous of Your Suffering with Daniel Mattson

When I (Laurie) was at a recent teaching event focused on leaning into LGBT+ conversation with grace and truth, I heard Daniel Mattson, author, speaker, and trombone player, share a story that made my jaw drop. As he taught, I found myself (for the first time) jealous of the way someone suffered.
He offers that story here.
We also play a ridiculous game where we all practice our acting skills (as West Michigan moms, hungry dinosaurs, and texting Millennials with focal fry), and Daniel and I lean into what labels we choose to identify (same-sex attracted? gay?) and why.
Welcome back, friends! We are so excited to walk this season with you.
 
//: Highlights:
"God allows us to walk away from him and stumble and fall so we can learn to reach out our hands and have him pick us up again." --Daniel Mattson
"I was tempted to despair when I was younger. I thought, 'If I obey God, I'm going to be stuck in a nursing home alone and forgotten.' . . . [But] let's say I'm in a retirement home when I'm 80. You know what I'm going to do? I'm going to be looking around at those other people who may have just lost their spouse and don't know what it means to have the single life and thrive. I am going to take them by the hand and say, 'You know? I've been doing this for a long time. Let's live out this life with joy.'" --Daniel Mattson
 
//: Do the Next Thing:
Find Daniel's book here!
Follow him on Twitter here!
Check out some Elisabeth Elliot (someone who suffered well and from whom we stole the "do the next thing" phrase) here.
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