Hole in My Heart Podcast

Episode 80: Fill These Hearts with Christopher West

Everything we do—good, evil, neutral—speaks to our longing for heaven. World-renowned teacher of Pope John Paul II's Theology of the Body and bestselling author, Christopher West, leans into this longing and unpacks it with outrageous wisdom and tenderness.
This is one we are all going to be going back and listening to several times. It is that rich.
(And don't worry: Those of you who want some of that goofball action, we make sure to talk about rats dying in Wendy's grease buckets. Yep.)
 
//: Highlights:
​"Here’s the whole Bible in five words: ‘God wants to marry us.’” --Christopher West
​"​We have three choices when it comes to our desire: We are either going to become the Stoic and repress the desire, an Addict and indulge in the finite pleasures of the world that never satisfy, or I am going to become…[an] Aspiring Mystic…someone who opens their hunger to the infinite.” --Christopher West
 
//: Question of the Week for Next Week:
What were you modeled/taught to do with your emotions growing up? Share them? Bury them? Open up and emphasize certain ones? (Like anger?)
 
//: Do the Next Thing:
Find More.

Episode 79: Dear Evangelical Pastor with Mike Rosebush

This is the story of a man who experienced attractions toward other men from a young age, found football, found God, found the Air Force (and excelled), and as a ministry leader came to grips with his same-gender attractions--now as a married-to-a-woman man.
God helped this man, Mike Rosebush, remove shame about his attractions, but people and circumstances placed him in conversion therapy. A major part of conversion therapy is seeking to make people change from gay to straight. It did not work.
However, as a licensed psychologist, Mike found himself in a position of counseling others who had a similar story. Mike had a choice: Follow the script he believed was unhelpful and unbiblical (to idolize sexual attractions as ultimate by making orientation change the primary goal), or find another way. He found another way: the path of sanctification and the path of daily surrender.
Hear more of Mike's journey and decision, and his exhortation to pastors and all Christians seeking to engage the LGBT+ conversation biblically and faithfully on today's episode.
 
//: Highlights: ​
"Dear Friend ... We who have same-sex attraction, who are Evangelical, who devote our life to celibacy, and who absolutely believe everything in your orthodoxy, we are not your enemy." --Mike Rosebush ​
"I was not about to put those [clients] through what I was put through ... My perspective is: 'It's not going to leave. We don't know how it got into us. It's there. Let's live well with it'... [And] I absolutely knew and still know that the Trinity likes me and loves me--just as I am--even with these attractions." --Mike Rosebush ​
 
//: Do the Next Thing:
Follow Mike on Facebook and check him out on his website.
We mention a "The Shack" experience
We also mention a Barna Study about pastors and leaders engaging the LGBT+ conversation
We refer to Mike's letter he wrote to pastors. You can find it here.
For More. 

Episode 78: Q & D: Purpose, Church Angst, and Your Questions with the Crew

The crew is back together!
​Laurie, Matt, and Producer Steve dive into their first-ever Q & D (Question & Discussion) podcast. Together, they explore areas they have wanted to dive into more deeply including:
More of Matt's story of when he felt so purposeless he decided to end his life in junior high (and then launched into a coping mechanism of pornography addiction)
Some of our angst about left/right polarity and clinging to our "rights" as Christians
How parents who are fighting with their LGBT+ kids can seek deep relationship with one another
How false forgiveness has been used to silence victims
And! Things we are looking forward to (including) future episodes with Ann Voskamp, Christopher West, and Dan Allender!
 
//: Highlights:
"I was trying to solidify myself. Eventually, I got to the point where none of the things I was doing made me feel substantive ... Everything I was trying to put in this place of giving me purpose and giving me value it [didn't] work. 'I hate it. And I hate myself.'" --Matt Krieg
"If we don't see each other as family, we will throw each other each other under the bus as soon as the heat gets turned up. I am not going to to go the wall for a fellow customer at Walmart. But I will go to the wall for somebody who is a part of my family (even if I don't agree with them about everything), because I love them and am committed to them." --Steve O'Dell ​
"Are we grieving for our enemies? Or are we screaming at our enemies and clinging to our 'rights'? Jesus himself did not cling to his rights, but he considered them nothing and took the humble form of a servant." --Laurie Krieg
 
//: Do the Next Thing:
The podcast episode Steve alluded to about Laurie's talk on how to lament? Find it here.
To hear more of Matt's story (as told on this podcast), listen here.
For More. 

Episode 77: The Need for Purpose with Kutter Callaway

{Week 10 Core Need is the need for purpose: filled with a sense of profoundly mattering.}
Unless we are feeling severely depressed, every human intrinsically feels this need to matter, to have purpose, and to make a mark on the world. Sometimes, this purpose-need gets redirected from receiving our marching orders from Jesus to staring at marriage: It will complete me.
Let's bust that whole thing apart with "Breaking the Marriage Idol" author, ​Kutter Callaway. We also explore your responses to what you grew up with as a paradigm for marriage (was singleness an option?), dig into the need to intentionally place women in positions of influence, and try to affirm our working theory that we are attracted to spouses and friends who are opposite to us when it comes to loving or loathing jigsaw puzzles.
You're welcome.
 
//: Highlights:
"Let's get rid of ... romance altogether. What are we left with? We are left with these amazing things that we should all be committed to: The welfare of widows and orphans, [and a commitment] to the welfare beyond simply the spouse that I am marrying . . . This is the family that God has called us into: A radically extended and open-armed family--not this sort of closed dyad we get if we start with that myth of romantic love."--Kutter Callaway
"I don't think anyone is walking around with a generic, abstract 'call' to marriage or singleness ... To walk into [life with a] Bachelor or Bachelorette vision where, 'I am just going to be with someone at the end of this. It doesn't really matter who the 25 people are--it's just survival of the fittest. You are the winner for my marriage calling!" That is the idol." --Kutter Callaway
//: Do the Next Thing:
Read the book we explore today called Breaking the Marriage Idol by Kutter Callaway
Those new books released this week? Find Deep Focus (Engaging Culture) here, and The Aesthetics of Atheism: Theology and Imagination in Contemporary Culture here.
Follow Kutter on Twitter
[Our outtakes with the high-pitch voiceover of Jesus comes from these ancient videos. They are worth a watch.]
For More. 

Episode 76: The Need to Be Unique with Brett and Janelle Beimers

{Week 9 Core Need is the need to be unique: delightfully special.}
We've explored the need to be included (belong), but how does that interplay with our good need to be unique?
We talk through this balance with foster and adoptive parents, Brett and Janelle Beimers. Their decision to adopt and foster models Christ's desire for radical inclusion (belonging), but they still need to cultivate each of their children's unique sense of self. How do they do that? What are the challenges to engaging both needs simultaneously--while also balancing the unique path of foster and adoptive life?
We explore these questions with them while, of course, playing a unique game and talking about our (and your, dear listeners) trademark things that make us feel like ourselves.
 
//: Highlights:
"One of our family themes or mottos has been, 'When God is generous to you or blesses you, build a longer table--not a bigger wall.'" --Brett Beimers
"You have the space, you see the need, and then you get the call... There are many many reasons to say ‘no’ [to a child], but there are also many many reasons to say 'yes.'" --Janelle Beimers
 
//: Do the Next Thing:
Check out the Jason Johnson Blog
Check out these websites:
On adoption and foster care: Michigan's Adoption Resource Exchange and Empowered to Connect
On child trauma: ChildTrauma Academy
If you want to asked Janelle or Brett questions about their foster/adoption journeys, read out to us at podcast@lauriekrieg.com and we will connect you!
For More. 

Bonus: Facing the Unthinkable Talk with Laurie Krieg (Or: ”How to Lament”)

How can we lovingly engage a world that opposes what we believe?
What is Laurie's ongoing practice to engage pushback?
One word: Lament. Laurie Krieg will walk you through the why's and how to's of what should be every Christian's ongoing practice of "venting to the only One who can do something about your pain."

Episode 75: The Need to Be Safe with Michael Card

{Week 8 Core Need is the need to be safe: Unafraid; trusting everything is under control.}
Many of us struggle with anxiety and fear. (Most of us? All of us?) We could shame ourselves. ("Why am I still wrestling with this!? I should know I'm safe!") But instead of shaming ourselves, why don't we look below the fear to the good need driving that fear: the need to be safe?
We unpack this good need to be safe with author and award-winning musician, Michael Card. Through the lens of safety, we explore God's character--His inexpressible hesed or lovingkindness and His invitation to rail on His chest in lament.
 
//: Highlights:
"This is the same God who spoke the universe into existence, who laid the foundations of the earth, [and] who created the stars and named each one of them. That same God invites me to exhaust myself against him when I'm confused or angry--even at him." --Michael Card
"Hesed is when the person from whom I have a right to expect nothing gives me everything--not a second chance, more chances than you can possibly imagine." --Michael Card
"Because God is a god of lovingkindness [hesed] I am safe to say... anything... Nowhere in Scripture does God say, 'How dare you talk to me like that.'" --Michael Card
"Worship comes from the Old English worth-ship. To worship God is to celebrate his worth. You don't discover his worth at a picnic on a green lawn. You discover his worth when you're hungry and you need manna. You discover his worth in the wilderness." --Michael Card
 
//: Do the Next Thing:
Check out Sacred Sorrow: Reaching out to God in the Lost Language of Lament
Check out Inexpressible: Hesed and the Mystery of God's Lovingkindness
Check out Michael's website here
Follow Michael on Facebook and Instagram
For More

Episode 74: The Need to Be Seen with Jeff Maness and John Wilson

{Week 7 Core Need is the need to be seen: Noticed inside and out.}
This episode has two gripping stories: One is of a pastor named John Wilson who, at a young age, recognized his attractions to his same gender. Burying the secret led him to hospitalization due to the chronic stress. Slowly, carefully, he came out to trusted friends, and found some freedom as he daily surrendered himself to Christ.
But then he moved far away, started working in a church, and the secret threatened to bury him again in shame. He needed to come out again, but the person with whom he most needed to share was both his pastor and his boss. What would he say? Would he lose his job? Would this pastor/boss see him and love him as God does?
Enter the second story of John's boss and lead pastor, Jeff Maness: Years before this conversation with John, God had begun to prepare Jeff's heart and his mind to receive John's story. Had God not set the stage, Jeff said he would have fired John after he came forward with his attractions toward men--even though John was surrendering his version of broken sexuality to the Lordship of Christ every day (as we are all called to do).
How did God radically change Jeff's heart?
How did John find the courage to share?
How did the entire church practically engage this conversation as a result?
Listen and find yourself at the foot of the cross with us in awe of the gospel's good news for everyone every day.
P.S. Today's after-show bloopers? Matt accidentally got slipped into live Christian radio to thousands of people while we did a mic check--and during this mic check he pretended to be an NPR host. (Shake our red-faced heads.)
 
//: Highlights:
"That fear of coming out was powerful, but it was not as powerful as the pain of being hidden." --John Wilson
"He didn't pull any punches... 'I'm gay' [he said.] Four years ago? I probably would have fired him on the spot just thinking that by him saying, 'I'm gay' he meant, 'I'm pursuing gay sex or a same sex romantic relationship.' But praise God instead of assuming--because God had done so much work in my heart--I learned to actually ask questions." --Jeff Maness
"In the 15 months since I told Pastor Jeff and brought this piece of myself into the light, the darkness and the mold and the sin and the dankness that was around has gone away . . . I have experienced such an increased amount of holiness and sanctification in my life because of the ability to be seen. I have legitimate accountability now because I can be honest with people." --John Wilson
"This has held a mirror up to our whole congregation--a mirror that needs to be held up to the big "C" Church. Have we lost people? Yes, we have lost a few. ... [But] we are going to stand on what we believe is the truth, we are going to offer what we believe is the radical grace of Jesus, and we are going to present to everyone this gospel message of all of us are called to die. And if that means we have some death in the process ourselves? Then that is the cost for us in this . . . It's time. It's time for the Church to speak into this boldly." --Jeff Maness
 
//: Do the Next Thing:
To watch John's sermon where he came out and shared his story with his church look here
To watch my sermon that followed his (following my story and the woman caught in adultery), look here
To read Preston Sprinkle's book, People to be Loved, mentioned by Pastor Jess, look here
To read Greg Cole's book mentioned by both Pastors Jeff and John, click here
To connect with Pastor Jeff, find his site here
To connect with Pastor John, find his information here
For more

Episode 73: The Need to Be Included with Ethan Renoe

{Week 6 Core Need is the need to be included: Wanted in this group, team, or partnership; belonging}
It seems as if the good need God put into us before the Fall to belong or be included goes hand-in-hand with authenticity. To belong--truly belong--we must be willing to get real. But how many of us feel we are scoring 100% at the relational authenticity level? Social media tells us we have hundreds or thousands of friends, but do we really belong? This is what our guest, Ethan Renoe, calls the "new lonely," and he wrote a book with the same title: The New Lonely: Intimacy in the Age of Isolation.
Ethan and the guys (Laurie is out sick!) explore how we try to solve our loneliness problem through wanderlust, pornography, and Ethan's viral, overnight fame. (Do you remember the video of the guy running shirtless in the rain?) The guys also play a Goofball Island game where they have to insert the moral of the story into some classic youth group entertainment. ​
Thanks for hanging out with us--it helps take off some of the edge of universal problem of loneliness.
 
//: Highlights:
​"I realized I was in a really unhealthy pattern where I would show up to a place and I'd be this really mysterious, cool, traveler guy, and before anyone could get to know me, I would leave." --Ethan Renoe
"Lonely people will often try to get rid of the loneliness by drowning it out. It's still going to be there when you're alone and it's quiet." --Ethan Renoe
"I realized that I was trying to pour from an empty cup. I was filling that void with false digital relationships with women on the internet. There was moment where I realized I can be real with people. I can say when I have a bad day, when I'm feeling excluded, and people can respond to how I'm feeling . . . People can get to know the real me." --Ethan Renoe
 
//: Do the Next Thing:
Check out Ethan's site and his books!
Two of Ethan's posts he mentions are "Are Men Starving for Physical Touch?" and "The Epidemic of Male Loneliness."
Find Ethan Renoe on the IG
For more

Episode 72: The Need to Be Loved with Jennifer Kennedy Dean

{Week 5 Core Need is the need for love: Unconditionally accepted}
All you need is love. It's a nice song, but what about the actual experience of love? How can we feel it deeply before we see Jesus face-to-face?
Author and speaker, Jennifer Kennedy Dean, guides us to a deeper experience of God's love that is not tethered to our circumstances (death of siblings, death of spouses, or a deep wrestling with the reality of prayer), but is richly intertwined to the alive and active Holy Spirit in us. ​
We also play a game called, "Love Song or Worship Song?" and somehow learn a deep lesson based on how goofy we look while dolphin watching.
 
//: Highlights:
"You are never going to be able to get love in the way exactly that you want to, but you can give love. When you give love not for the purpose of making someone love you, but for the purpose of expressing the Jesus who lives in you, you are going to find that fulfilling." --Jennifer Kennedy Dean ​
"Prayer is more than sandwiching words between, 'Dear God' and 'Amen.' There is a whole aspect of prayer that is going on directly from your heart to God's that might not even have words on it yet." --Jennifer Kennedy Dean
 
//: Do the Next Thing:
Check out Jennifer's site and her bestselling books
For more